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  • Venting of a Muslim who struggles with unwanted homosexual feelings


    This is something I recently wrote out of frustration and loneliness particularly within my own religion, Islam, in struggling with unwanted homosexual desires. It contains what may seem like harsh language. The harsh language is not objectively a judgment or necessarily factual belief I hold. Because they are not factual or actual believes I actually hold, I have chosen to suppress this emotional outburst for too long. Unfortunately, I have discovered that doing so only makes it works and destroys me from the inside out. My guess is that it has a similar effect on others who struggle with the same issue.Therefore, I have chosen to share it, in its emotional and core expression as it came out naturally, rather than modify it to be a rational, logical and intellectual reading. If it causes offense, that was not the intention; the intention is authentic expression of what lies within one's heart, both good and evil, with the desire to reach a more fulfilled place, not to hold on to evil, with the sincere cry for help in a silent struggle. At this stage, I believe truthful expression of emotions rather than diplomatic communication is more likely to yield real and actual relationships rather than artificial ones. I believe honest communication while acknowledging one's own imperfections rather than force one's self to be civilized when on the inside he is crying for help but afraid to be judged for being himself is a sign of greater respect for any recepients of strong emotions, rather than disrespect as some might interpret it as if they were to look at such outbursts with indignance, ego and defensiveness. With all that being said, if this breaks any forum rules, that is also not the desired intention, and please delete it in that case. Thank you.

    ---------------------

    Where is Islam, as far as unwanted homosexual desires are concerned? Also known as Same-Sex Attractions (SSA). Nowhere. Yes; nowhere. Maybe in hidden places. Perhaps if one reads into things, or discovers eventually on his own that Allah doesn't hate him after all for his feelings, as opposed to the indications he received as a teenager or young adult that keeps him terrified within his own body and entraps the unhealthy desires within as well.

    To those who claim Islam is all encompassing..Beep! Wrong! Try again. Islam has not offered a solution for SSA. Islam has not addressed this issue, other than to say that those who give into such desires should be burned, and are abominations. Oh, sure, one might be told, it's a test! It's the devil playing tricks on your mind! You will be rewarded if you are patient.

    Too general! Too impersonal! And a complete lack of understanding, I must say. Yes, reading Quran, praying, fasting and exercise are helpful and important. Are they enough? Believe it or not, they're not. SSA is a complex issue with countless psychological, environmental, and some very indirect genetic components (the latter being more around genetic predisposition to sensitivity rather than towards any sexual deviation per se).

    And when one is praying in complete blindness to these factors; complete blindness to understanding his own self, his own feelings (sexual feelings, no less; quite intense, if you ask the average man today), then it is a prayer with a sense of loss of identity; and incredible loneliness.

    And I must add to this: One may suggest that one accept that this is a test from Allah, and therefore must suppress it without understanding it, as well as to pray it away. Foolish, naive, impersonal advice once more. SSA has plenty of explanations. There has been extensive research in this area, as well as forms of treatment available to thousands today, by the mercy of Allah. So for a Muslim to suggest nothing more than to pray it away is unfair, unhealthy, and downright rude and disrespectful.

    One must emphasize that all forms of treatment stress the importance of a healthy relationship with God and religion to overcome these troubling feelings. To do so, Jewish and Christian organizations have been formed to create a safe haven for Jews and Christians to face this struggle with fellows of their faiths, as well as to increase awareness of the nature of these feelings and what lies behind them. Many religious leaders of their faiths have gained understanding of this struggle and offer spiritual advice and comfort from a place of understanding.

    As for Muslims? What do they do? The sorry, desparate Muslims who are desperate for help find one another through the internet and create their own support system. A support system overwhelme with loneliness, desparation and lack of order. Random people giving random advice based on personal experience that may sometimes cause more harm than good in a very sensitive topic. Muslims fear that anyone should discover their hidden feelings (although there is no shame in feelings one hasn't chosen for himself, and one has a responsibility to interact with his feelings to the best he can), so they interact anonymously to further deepen the sense of division and distance from reality. They claim that it would be dangerous to meet in person with fellow Muslims out of fear of sexually acting out, which indicates yet further lack of confidence, lack of self respect, and lack of understanding of the nature of these feelings, which require frequent encounters with other members of the same sex, especially those who they could be emotionally open to, to help overcome these feelings. Perhaps these hysterically paranoid measures are appropriate for an immature population that lacks order and understanding. But a population that is immature and lacks order and understanding is exactly what these measures indicate.

    Once again: As a Muslim, I believe Allah is all loving. I have absolutely no doubt that even within Islam, the appropriate comfort and support that any Muslim needs can be found if done with patience, understanding, trust, safety, guidance, and I must emphasize once more, readings and understandings of Islamic teachings "in general", without being swayed by the unsafe environment most Muslims provide today, further implanted by absolute lack of understanding and respect for those who have this struggle. But is there any direct explanation for this struggle in Islam that addresses the underlying, psychological holes to help a Muslim understand himself and his place in life spiritually and psychologically in relation to these feelings, other than to see them as the "devil whispering in the ear of a Muslim to guide him to sin"?

    Absolutely not. And this is why, in this issue, perhaps more than others, which involved Jihad Al-nafs, one of the greatest forms of Jihad, that one absolutely needs guidance and support in this struggle.

    The default, absolute and unquestionable answer to this is Allah. Not Muslims, not imams, not mothers or fathers, not the prophet or the Quran. Most of these sources today lack any appropriate understanding of this issue. Only Allah can guide a person to the Truth. And the truth is that if a Muslim wants a scientific, mature and progressive understanding and healing, then as tools of Allah he must rely on Jews and Christians who have progressed much more than Muslims in this area. And if a Muslim wants spiritual guidance and support (a critical component of any struggle), he will likely do so in isolation, away from other Muslims, feeling detached and misunderstood by his own religion. Is this what Allah asks of Muslims and Islam? I would think not.

    But Muslims, up until today, have failed. They have failed to address the issue of SSA in Muslims. They have failed to provide a safe grounding of wisdom and understanding in this area. They have failed to accept and embrace all challenges a Muslim may struggle with as an opportunity to grow closer to God, preferring to ridicule and condemn those with SSA instead.

    Certainly not all, I must admit. I am certain plenty of Muslims with this struggle have successfully achieved the appropriate support within Islam with other Muslims. But I would safely guess that the majority of those have not done so to the extent that leaves them feeling comfortable and sinless as they would have been if Muslims today had the awareness and love that Islam expects. I would safely assume that the majority of Muslims with this struggle suffer in isolation. I safely hold the Muslim community responsible for the epidemic of underground homosexual relationships throughout the Muslim world, which occurs at rates much larger than most Muslims are aware of (or care to know). No doubt the Muslim engaging in such behaviors are to be held responsible for their actions as well. And yet, apart from their distance from Allah, perhaps as a result of lack of support of those around them, there is an additional factor of reaching a sense of hopelessness and despair whilst living among people who pride themselves as belonging to the most knowledgable, all encompassing and perfect religion in the world. I believe I can safely say that Jews and Christians are more outspoken about this struggle and create safe environments for their worshippers to work on this issue with support with their fellow Jews or Christians, compared to Muslims.

    I will not go into the details of SSA feelings, reasons, explanation or understanding. I believe any Muslim who wants to know these things needs but to ask. More broadly, any Muslim in general with a sincere desire to help fellow Muslims would reach out to others to help and encourage other Muslims in struggles of all kind; an action of love that if done often enough would surely solve more problems, including the unraveling of this underground struggle, to help it mature in religious understanding to reach a sensible spiritual attitude towards dealing with SSA, rather than the largely unhealthy attitude of most Muslims today towards this issue. I will mention, however, that one generally predominant factor involved is distance of the person who struggles with SSA from his or her father, or with men in general (or with femininity for females) during life. In other words, people with SSA from a young age have a sense of distanc, lack of guidance, deficiency of love and relationships, and a sensation of difference from other men for males or women for females. These feelings exist to some degree on some level whether the sufferer is aware of them or if he denies them because he has suppressed the painful truth.

    This distance from other people creates lack of maturity and therefore a sense of being alive and participating in life in many areas (which the person on a subconscious level tries to repair or compensate for sexually, unhealthy as that is). This immaturity further complicates the ability of a Muslim with SSA, already living in a sense of alienation from other men, to achieve a strong sense of identity and strength to journey towards finding some resolution in a matter that is severely and dangerously stigmatized and repressed in the Muslim world today, along with countless other deficiencies Muslims refuse to acknowledge or address.

    I must say that by the grace of Allah, even within Islam, there is a path for Muslims. Allah doesn't ask of a human being more than he coudl bear. Perhaps part of the struggle with homosexual feelings for Muslims is exactly the fact that it has been avoided, ignored and neglected in Islamic literature, as a test to see which Muslim would trust their own religion in spite of a seeming deficit. I don't know, and I may never know.

    I must also say that these writings are the outpouring of a heart, not just a result of the mind. Literal interpretation of this post, as well as anything else in the world, without at the very least acknowledging the heart and indications behind why such things could possibly come out of the mouth of a Muslim is exactly the intolerant factor some Muslims hold that suppresses others for reason of fear of saying the "wrong" thing, or fear that honest expression of one's self could lead one to stray from his religion and God, when the exact opposite is the truth. I myself see this as an outpouring of a suffering heart that chooses not to take the emotions involved in isolation, nor to reach outrageous conclusions and final judgments in a negative light, but rather a process of outbursting of troubling emotions and attitudes most Muslims with this struggle suffer with today, holding them down lest something "bad" happens; maybe they'll realize they're not alone, and that freeing one's self from any attitude or emotion that bubbles up by accepting it and expelling it rather than hating it, denying it or repressing it, is the healthy path towards ultimate Truth. It is an opportunity to express the feelings many Muslims with SSA carry and are ashamed of, but out of fear of these feelings and their own sexuality, they repress their emotions and as a result their souls are eaten from the inside out instead. It's also written out of curiosity to see what Muslim might be willing to look beyond defensiveness, self righteousness and literal interpretation, or desire to find fault in another, and alternatively see pain and struggle behind words that create internal disarray and suggest a need for guidance and love that most Muslims with SSA (and many without) are afraid to ask for, and don't expect to receive.

    Thank you

  • #2
    Islam and Homosexuality


    Aauzo Billaahi Minash Shaitaan Nir Rajim Bismillaah Hir Rahman Nir Raheem ;

    Allah - Beginning With The Name Of - The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful.


    As-Salāmu `Alaykum


    Dear Hindenone Venter,

    Homosexuality is wrong, a sin, in Islam. Of that there really can be no dispute.

    In Islam, homosexuals are condemned to receive the severest form of punishment in Islam. Homosexuality is treated as a serious sexual crime like Zina
    and adultery are. Here are some Islamic provisions for sodomy as found in Quran, ahadith and Sha’ria.Firstly:

    The crime of homosexuality is one of the greatest of crimes, the worst of sins and the most abhorrent of deeds, and Allaah punished those who did it in a way that He did not punish other nations. It is indicative of violation of the fitrah, total misguidance, weak intellect and lack of religious commitment, and it is a sign of doom and deprivation of the mercy of Allaah. We ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound.

    Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
    “And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ‘Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?

    81. ‘Verily, you practise your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins).’

    82. And the answer of his people was only that they said: ‘Drive them out of your town, these are indeed men who want to be pure (from sins)!’

    83. Then We saved him and his family, except his wife; she was of those who remained behind (in the torment).
    84. And We rained down on them a rain (of stones). Then see what was the end of the Mujrimoon (criminals, polytheists and sinners)”
    [al-A’raaf 7:80-84]
    “Verily, by your life (O Muhammad), in their wild intoxication, they were wandering blindly.
    73. So As‑Saihah (torment — awful cry) overtook them at the time of sunrise.
    74. And We turned (the towns of Sodom in Palestine) upside down and rained down on them stones of baked clay.
    75. Surely, in this are signs for those who see (or understand or learn the lessons from the Signs of Allaah).
    76. And verily, they (the cities) were right on the highroad (from Makkah to Syria, i.e. the place where the Dead Sea is now)”
    [al-Hijr 15:72-76]
    al-Tirmidhi (1456), Abu Dawood (4462)and Ibn Maajah (2561) narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.”. Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.
    Ahmad (2915) narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “May Allaah curse the one who does the action of the people of Loot, may Allaah curse the one who does the action of the people of Loot,” three times. This was classed as hasan by Shu’ayb al-Arna’oot in Tahqeeq al-Musnad.
    The Sahaabah were unanimously agreed on the execution of homosexuals, but they differed as to how they were to be executed. Some of them were of the view that they should be burned with fire, which was the view of ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) and also of Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him), as we shall see below. And some of them thought that they should be thrown down from a high place then have stones thrown at them. This was the view of Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him).

    Some of them thought that they should be stoned to death, which was narrated from both ‘Ali and Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with them).

    After the Sahaabah, the fuqaha’ differed concerning the matter. Some of them said that the homosexual should be executed no matter what his situation, whether he is married or not.
    Some of them said that he should be punished in the same way as an adulterer, so he should be stoned if he is married and flogged if he is not married.

    Some of them said that a severe punishment should be carried out on him, as the judge sees fit.
    Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah be pleased with him) discussed this issue at length, and he mentioned the evidence and arguments of the fuqaha’, but he supported the first view. This is explained in his book al-Jawaab al-Kaafi’ li man sa’ala ‘an al-Dawa’ al-Shaafi, which he wrote to deal with this immoral action. We will quote some of what he said:
    Because the evil consequences of homosexuality are among the worst of evil consequences, so its punishment is one of the most severe of punishments in this world and in the Hereafter.

    The scholars differed as to whether it is to be punished more severely than zina, or whether the punishment for zina should be more severe, or whether the punishments should be the same. There are three points of view:
    Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq, ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib, Khaalid ibn al-Waleed, ‘Abd-Allaah ibn al-Zubayr, ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Abbaas, Maalik, Ishaaq ibn Raahawayh, Imam Ahmad according to the more sound of the two reports from him and al-Shaafa’i according to one of his opinions, were of the view that the punishment for homosexuality should be more severe than the punishment for zina, and the punishment is execution in all cases, whether the person is married or not.

    Al-Shaafa’i, according to the well-known view of his madhhab, and Imam Ahmad according to the other report narrated from him, were of the view that the punishment for the homosexual should be the same as the punishment for the adulterer.

    Imam Abu Haneefah was of the view that the punishment for the homosexual should be less severe than the punishment for the adulterer, and it is a punishment to be determined by the judge (ta’zeer).

    Those who favoured the first view, who are the majority of the ummah – and more than one scholar narrated that there was consensus among the Sahaabah on this point – said that there is no sin that brings worse consequences than homosexuality, and they are second only to the evil consequences of kufr, and they may be worse than the consequences of murder, as we shall see below in sha Allaah.

    They said: Allaah did not test anyone with this major sin before the people of Loot, and He punished them with a punishment that He did not send upon any other nation; He combined all kinds of punishment for them, such as destruction, turning their houses upside down, causing them to be swallowed up by the earth, sending stones down upon them from the sky, taking away their sight, punishing them and making their punishment ongoing, and wreaking vengeance upon them such as was not wrought upon any other nation. That was because of the greatness of the evil consequences of this crime which the earth can hardly bear if it is committed upon it, and the angels flee to the farthest reaches of heaven and earth if they witness it, lest the punishment be sent upon those who do it and they be stricken along with them. The earth cries out to its Lord, may He be blessed and exalted, and the mountains almost shift from their places.

    Killing the one to whom it is done is better for him than committing this act with him, because if a man commits sodomy with another man, in effect he kills him in such a way that there is no hope of life after that, unlike murder where the victim is wronged and is a martyr. They said: the evidence for that (i.e., that the evil consequences of homosexuality are worse than those of murder) is the fact that in the case of murder, Allaah gives the next of kin the choice: if he wishes he may have him executed and if he wishes he may let him off, but He enjoined executing the homosexual as a hadd punishment, as the companions of the Messenger of Allaah were unanimously agreed, and as is clearly indicated by the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and there is no evidence to the contrary; rather this is what his companions and the Rightly-Guided Caliphs (may Allaah be pleased with them all) did.

    It is narrated from Khaalid ibn al-Waleed that he found a man among one of the Arab tribes with whom men would have intercourse as with a woman. He wrote to Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq (may Allaah be pleased with him) and Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq consulted the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them). ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib had the strongest opinion of all of them, and he said: “No one did that but one of the nations, and you know what Allaah did to them. I think that he should be burned with fire.” So Abu Bakr wrote to Khaalid and he had him burned.

    ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Abbaas said: The highest point in the town should be found and the homosexual should be thrown head first from it, then stones should be thrown at him.

    Ibn ‘Abbaas derived this hadd punishment from the punishment that Allaah sent upon the homosexuals of the people of Loot.

    Ibn ‘Abbaas is the one who narrated from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) the words: “Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.” This was narrated by the authors of al-Sunan and was classed as saheeh by Ibn Hibbaan and others. Imam Ahmad quoted this hadeeth as evidence, and its isnaad meets the conditions of al-Bukhaari.

    They said: and it is narrated that he said: “May Allaah curse the one who does the action of the people of Loot, may Allaah curse the one who does the action of the people of Loot, may Allaah curse the one who does the action of the people of Loot,” and it is not narrated that he cursed the adulterer three times in one hadeeth. He cursed those who do a variety of major sins, but he did not curse any of them more than once, but he repeated the curse for the homosexual three times. The companions of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) agreed unanimously that the homosexual is to be executed, and none of them differed concerning that. Rather they differed as to the method of execution. Some people thought that this difference means that they disagreed about executing him, so they narrated it as a matter concerning which the Sahaabah differed, but it is a matter concerning which there was consensus among them, not a matter of difference.

    And they said: Whoever ponders the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):
    “And come not near to unlawful sex. Verily, it is a Faahishah (i.e. anything that transgresses its limits: a great sin), and an evil way (that leads one to hell unless Allaah Forgives him)”
    [al-Isra’ 17:32]

    and what He says about homosexuality (interpretation of the meaning):
    “And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?”
    [al-A’raaf 7:80]

    will see the difference between them. When Allaah mentioned zina, He described it as a “great sin” (faahishah – indefinite) among other great sins, but when He mentioned homosexuality, He called it “the worst sin” (al-faahishah – definite). This suggests that it contains all the essence of evil and sin.
    End quote from al-Jawaab al-Kaafi (p. 260-263).

    Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: With regard to homosexuality, some of the scholars said that the hadd punishment for it is the same as the hadd punishment for zina, and it was said that it is less than that. But the correct view on which the Sahaabah were unanimously agreed is that both are to be killed, the active and the passive partners, whether they are married or not. The authors of al-Sunan narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.” And Abu Dawood narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas concerning the unmarried person who commits a homosexual act that he said: He is to be stoned. And something similar was narrated from ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib (may Allaah be pleased with him). The Sahaabah did not differ concerning the ruling that the homosexual is to be executed, but they differed concerning the methods. It was narrated from Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq (may Allaah be pleased with him) that he is to be burned, and from others that he is to be executed.

    It was narrated from some of them that a wall is to be knocked down on top of him until he dies beneath it.

    And it is said that both should be detained in the foulest of places until they die.

    It was narrated from some of them that he should be taken up to the highest place in the town and thrown down from it, to be followed with stones, as Allaah did to the people of Loot. This was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas. According to the other report, he is to be stoned. This was the view of the majority of the salaf. They said: because Allaah stoned the people of Loot, and stoning is prescribed for the zaani by analogy with the stoning of the homosexual. Both are to be stoned, whether they are free or slaves, or one of them is the slave of the other, if they have reached the age of puberty. If one of them has not reached the age of puberty, he is to be punished but not stoned, and none is to be stoned except one who has reached puberty. End quote from al-Siyaasah al-Shar’iyyah, p. 138.

    Secondly:
    The one to whom it is done is like the one who does it, because they both took part in the sin. So both are to be punished by execution, as it says in the hadeeth. But two exceptions may be made to that:
    1 – One who is forced into sodomy by means of beating, death threats and the like. He is not subject to any hadd punishment.
    It says in Sharh Muntaha al-Iraadaat (3/348): There is no hadd punishment if the one who has been sodomized is forced into it, such as if the one who did it overpowered him or threatened him with death or beating and the like. End quote.

    2 – If the one to whom it was done is a minor and has not reached the age of puberty. There is no hadd punishment in this case, but he should be disciplined and punished in a way that will deter him from committing this crime, as stated above in the quotation from Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah.
    Ibn Qudaamah (may Allaah have mercy on him) narrated in al-Mughni (9/62) that there is no difference of opinion among the scholars concerning the fact that the hadd punishment should not be carried out on one who is insane or a boy who has not yet reached the age of puberty.

    And Allaah knows best.



    The Five Pillars of Islam (arkān-al-Islām أركان الإسلام; also arkān ad-dīn أركان الدين "pillars of the religion") are five basic acts in Islam.

    The Qur'an presents them as a framework for worship and a sign of commitment to the faith. They are (1) the shahada (creed), (2) daily prayers (salat), (3) fasting during Ramadan (sawm), (4) almsgiving (zakāt), and (5) the pilgrimage to Mecca (hajj) at least once in a lifetime.

    Comment


    • #3
      Aauzo Billaahi Minash Shaitaan Nir Rajim Bismillaah Hir Rahman Nir Raheem ;
      Allah - Beginning With The Name Of - The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful.

      As-Salāmu `Alaykum

      Homosexuality is not allowed in Islam. There are various verses in Quran where Allah clearly says about Homosexuality.

      In Islam, homosexuals (called qaum Lut, the "people of Lot") are condemned in the story of Lot's people in the Qur'an (15:73; 26:165) and in the last address of the Prophet Muhammad. However, attraction of men to beautiful male youths has been a part of the culture of some Islamic societies and the attraction is not generally condemned in itself.


      We also (sent) Lut: he said to his people: "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? "For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds." - Holy Quran 7:80-81


      The Quran forbids any sexual relationship other than in a marriage between a man and a woman. Many homosexual men and women claim that they are born with their sexual preferences and that they have no choice. Although this point is very much in dispute in the medical world, it has no support in the Quran. Even then, irrespective of the nature of homosexuality, this matter would not affect the laws spelled out clearly in the Quran .


      We know that this life is a test. Everyone of us has his/her own test. For example someone may be born blind, but that person is expected to live his/her life according to God's law. Others are born poor, short, tall, weak, missing fingers, having big nose...etc but all of them are expected to follow God's law. Some men or women may never marry in their life, or spend part of their life without a spouse. As per the Quran they still have to live a chaste life and avoid any sexual contacts outside a marriage. They have to suppress their sexual feelings to follow God's law. It is a major test and not an easy one for many. Only those who submit to God will do everything they can to follow His law. They know that their salvation and eternal happiness rests in doing so.

      Since God condemns homosexuality, then we have to believe that a man or a woman with homosexual feelings is expected to behave like any other human being and follows God's laws if he/she truely believes in them. He/she shall resist his/her feelings , maintains abstinence , use all available resources of help including medical, social and behavioral therapies to overcome their behavior and feelings. They should pray to God to help them getting over it and submit to God's law that sees homosexuality as gross sin. Only those who steadfastly persevere in obeying God's law will they pass their test and confirm their submission to God. "We also sent Lut: He said to his people: Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds. And his people gave no answer but this: they said, "Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!"" (Qur'an 7:80-82)

      "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)! They said: "If thou desist not, O Lut! thou wilt assuredly be cast out!" He said: "I do detest your doings:" "O my Lord! deliver me and my family from such things as they do!" So We delivered him and his family,- all Except an old woman who lingered behind. But the rest We destroyed utterly. We rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): and evil was the shower on those who were admonished (but heeded not)! Verily in this is a Sign: but most of them do not believe. And verily thy Lord is He, the Exalted in Might, Most Merciful." (Qur'an 26:165-175)

      "Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant! But his people gave no other answer but this: They said, "Drive out the followers of Lut from your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!" But We saved him and his family, except his wife; her We destined to be of those who lagged behind. And We rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): and evil was the shower on those who were admonished (but heeded not)!" (Qur'an 27:55-58)

      "And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway? - and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of Allah if thou tellest the truth." (Qur'an 29:28-29)

      "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way. If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful." (Qur'an 4:15-16)
      The Five Pillars of Islam (arkān-al-Islām أركان الإسلام; also arkān ad-dīn أركان الدين "pillars of the religion") are five basic acts in Islam.

      The Qur'an presents them as a framework for worship and a sign of commitment to the faith. They are (1) the shahada (creed), (2) daily prayers (salat), (3) fasting during Ramadan (sawm), (4) almsgiving (zakāt), and (5) the pilgrimage to Mecca (hajj) at least once in a lifetime.

      Comment


      • #4
        You mentioned social and behavior therapies. Thank you. I can tell you that to a very large extent, the therapies I have been to for this matter, which are not at all available in the Muslim world, emphasize the danger of SHAME in contributing to SSA. Shame feeds into it. Shame makes a person want to act out sexually. Acceptance of one's self and of one's burden help a person to not have a strong desire to let it out sexually and sinfully. And I must say that hadiths and verses as what you wrote about are incredibly triggering for shame in any person who struggles with SSA. Especially if, as a young teenager they search for answers for their confusing feelings and that's all they come up with. Thank you for sharing and trying to help, I appreciate your effort. At the same time, I hope I'm making at least a little sense to you or anyone else, because all I hear in your reply are threats and condemnation, which I understand, and believe that in their own would very well serve to push a person with SSA to sin out of hopelessness and SHAME, rather than be motivated to work on it. Once again: any advice, out of experience, if anyone has any remote interest in the issue, or has a selfish interest because they have a homosexual family member or something, look it up, educate yourself from Western sources who actually know what this feels like, understand the sufferer rather than telling him his feelings are wrong, because he probably already knows that.

        Some of my reply didn't go through. Having homosexual feelings isn't the same as blindness or having a large nose because it's a sin, and being blind isn't a sin. I don't say that makes it easier, but it does make it more confusing and complicated, and if a person doesn't have support and understanding of his own self, he may very well have a weak sense of identity because his sexuality is deviated, sexuality which is one of the most sensitive desires or feelings in any human, and in my opinion should be dealed with more sensitively or at least with better education. Nothing you wrote above points to any understanding of Islam of these feelings, and in and of themselves they only serve to increase confusion in anyone who would struggle with this burden. I'm blessed to have found Christians and Jews who understand the feelings, because if I asked only Muslims I would probably receive no understanding of myself and continue to feel lost, as I did before I found the necessary understanding to accept myself, understand myself and grow out of the feelings in a way that I can deal with them in a healthy way instead of suppressing them, as you say, which is very dangerous, because it grows on the inside if not dealt with properly. Rather than suppress them, one must address them directly and confront them to understand them and understand what's going on behind those feelings that drive a man to feel that way in the first place. Dealing with those help decrease the SSA feelings. To suppress them is like telling a person with a bacterial infection to just try to take cough medicine to eradicate bacteria which makes no sense because it deals with a symptom, not a cause, and the symptom doesn't go away, and the disease becomes stronger.
        Last edited by hiddenone; 10-24-2012, 01:45 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Salaam Hiddenone

          I actually registered just to be able to reply to you.
          I'm incredibly inspired and awed by such a frank, heartfelt, honest, genuine and touching vent, and have no idea as to what to say fIRST.

          Tanveer. Shaikh- shame on you. I don;t think you even READ what HiddenOne has said. That's an AWFUL way to treat someone who has such a TERRIBLE burden. He's a muslim, and he knows full well EVERything you've dredged up to repeat Islam's stance on this. Believe you me, he probably knows all this stuff off by heart. repeating it aGAIn in this tired unfeeling way doesn't help one. bit.

          HiddenOne has actually displayed signs of being stronger in faith and Iman than perhaps you and I could ever even hOPE to be.

          To have SSA, as a devoted muslim is the most soul destroying catastrophe - or so it seems and is made out to be by every muslim around them (save but a rare few). When 'devout" muslims such as you and I-hope-to-be, treat someone who doesn't WANT to sin and believe and Love in Allah completely with such conTEMPt and hatred, then where do you think you're pushing them? What other choice are you leaving them?!

          It's very easy to judge and condemn. So very damn easy. Just because YOU have not been tested with something THIS severe, this soul-shattering, this overwhlmingly despairing balaa', you are in nO position to look down on someone who has. That is their affliction, and they're trying the best they can to deal with it.

          EnOUGh with pretending that there are absolutely no Muslims with SSA ever. That is LUDIcrous. And all we're doing is alienating and pushing away and driving to depression and despair our fellow brothers and sisters. They have enough on their plate to deal with and try to reconciliate without us making sure to push them away further from Islam and from the muslim community. When you just strive to make them feel worse, then perhaps the blame and the ithm of them going off and embRACINg the gay lifestyle is something that will fall on yOUR shoulders too.

          HiddenOne has NOT chosen to go and live a lifestyle of sin. He's doing something that is one of the most incredibly difficult things to do. And it canNOT be an easy thing to live, every day of your life, feeling afraid scared, hopeless, hated and shunned. Just because you HAVE such feelings and such a burden.

          HiddenOne - it's not Islamic of anyone to shun another like so. And wallahi, I have so much respect for you for still having the strength and strength of Iman to hold off and carry out this Jihad of the Nafs. Surely, this is the most difficult Jihad-of-the-Nafs possible.

          I accept you as my brother in Islam, and I'm extremely proud of you for not having been driven to an extreme measure to deal with such a complex situation as you've found yourself in. I hold you hands in solidarity and pray with you and fOR you, that Allah give you strength of will and love to keep pure. Wallahi I understand how hard it is, but .. when you give something up for Allah, he will give you back, multiple amounts insha'Allah.

          I wish, like you, for a time where muslims conTAIN and offer a safe and loving accepting refuge for all their brothers and sisters who DO have to deal with SSA and treat them with love and kindness. Because they NEED that love, acceptance and support at LEASt in order to feel , in this life, duly compensated for not indulging in their feelings; which must seem like a huge sacrifice regardless.

          Thank you very much for sharing, good sir.
          I pray that you be given strength, and a never ending river or sabr and Iman; and for a community and friends who love you and strengthen your resolve to abide with Allah, trust in him, and know that for every pain, your reward will be great insha'Allah.

          Wassalaam

          Comment


          • #6
            His (Allah) will is above the will of all the creatures

            Aauzo Billaahi Minash Shaitaan Nir Rajim Bismillaah Hir Rahman Nir Raheem ;
            Allah - Beginning With The Name Of - The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful.


            As-Salāmu `Alaykum


            Dear hiddenone and HowIsee.....

            Whatever I have written thats was in context with Islam and Teaching of Islam and I am Proud to be one of the Muslim who is following Shariya and Sunnat of our beloved Prophet (.).

            I am not having any shame to share what’s is right and wrong!!!

            The Question and the entire write up is shared on a platform where lots of people visiting and trying to resolve their own problems by reading, understanding and relating their own problems.

            When we talked about Islam and related Issues..... Individual thoughts and think is irrelevant and having no meaning. (I think Mr. hiddenone and HowIsee will agree with my point).
            Now..we will turned and see the sentences of Mr. hiddenone

            (hiddenone ….This is something I recently wrote out of frustration and loneliness particularly within my own religion, Islam, in struggling with unwanted homosexual desires.
            Where is Islam, as far as unwanted homosexual desires are concerned? Also known as Same-Sex Attractions (SSA). Nowhere. Yes; nowhere. Maybe in hidden places. )…….. In Islam, homosexuals are condemned to receive the severest form of punishment in Islam. Homosexuality is treated as a serious sexual crime like Zina and adultery are. Here are some Islamic provisions for sodomy as found in Quran, ahadith and Sha’ria.

            (hiddenone …. At this stage, I believe truthful expression of emotions rather than diplomatic communication is more likely to yield real and actual relationships rather than artificial ones.) .... The Quran forbids any sexual relationship other than in a marriage between a man and a woman. Many homosexual men and women claim that they are born with their sexual preferences and that they have no choice. Although this point is very much in dispute in the medical world, it has no support in the Quran. Even then, irrespective of the nature of homosexuality, this matter would not affect the laws spelled out clearly in the Quran.


            (hiddenone ….To those who claim Islam is all encompassing..Beep! Wrong! Try again. Islam has not offered a solution for SSA. Islam has not addressed this issue, other than to say that those who give into such desires should be burned, and are abominations.) …. In Islam, homosexuals (called qaum Lut, the "people of Lot") are condemned in the story of Lot's people in the Qur'an (15:73; 26:165) and in the last address of the Prophet Muhammad. However, attraction of men to beautiful male youths has been a part of the culture of some Islamic societies and the attraction is not generally condemned in itself.

            We know that this life is a test. Everyone of us has his/her own test. For example someone may be born blind, but that person is expected to live his/her life according to God's law. Others are born poor, short, tall, weak, missing fingers, having big nose...etc but all of them are expected to follow God's law. Some men or women may never marry in their life, or spend part of their life without a spouse. As per the Quran they still have to live a chaste life and avoid any sexual contacts outside a marriage. They have to suppress their sexual feelings to follow God's law. It is a major test and not an easy one for many. Only those who submit to God will do everything they can to follow His law. They know that their salvation and eternal happiness rests in doing so.


            (hiddenone ….The default, absolute and unquestionable answer to this is Allah. Not Muslims, not imams, not mothers or fathers, not the prophet or the Quran. Most of these sources today lack any appropriate understanding of this issue. Only Allah can guide a person to the Truth. And the truth is that if a Muslim wants a scientific, mature and progressive understanding and healing, then as tools of Allah he must rely on Jews and Christians who have progressed much more than Muslims in this area. And if a Muslim wants spiritual guidance and support (a critical component of any struggle), he will likely do so in isolation, away from other Muslims, feeling detached and misunderstood by his own religion. Is this what Allah asks of Muslims and Islam? I would think not.) ….. One should clearly be understood that Muslims believe in one, unique, incomparable Allah, Who has no son or partner, and that none has the right to be worshipped but Him alone. He is the true God, and every other deity is false. He has the most magnificent names and sublime perfect attributes. No one shares His divinity, nor His attributes. In the Quran, Allah describes Himself:
            Say, “He is Allah, the One. Allah, to Whom the creatures turn for their needs. He begets not, nor was He begotten, and there is none like Him.” (Quran, 112:1-4)


            God alone is the Almighty, the Creator, the Sovereign, and the Sustainer of everything in the whole universe. He manages all affairs. He stands in need of none of His creatures, and all His creatures depend on Him for all that they need. He is the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing, and the All-Knowing. In a perfect manner, His knowledge encompasses all things, the open and the secret, and the public and the private. He knows what has happened, what will happen, and how it will happen. No affair occurs in the whole world except by His will. Whatever He wills is, and whatever He does not will is not and will never be. His will is above the will of all the creatures. He has power over all things, and He is able to do everything.

            Muslims believe that God revealed books to His messengers as proof for mankind and as guidance for them. Among these books is the Quran, which God revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (.).

            Muslims believe in the prophets and messengers of God, starting with Adam..Muslims believe that Muhammad ()
            is the last prophet sent by Allah, as God has said:

            Muhammad is not the father of any one of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the last of the prophets... (Quran, 33:40)

            Surrender to Almighty Allah. This is understood from a verse in the Holy Quran - Allah says: "Inna deena indalahil-Islam." (Certainly, the only acceptable way which Allah will accept is Islam). [Holy Quran 3:19]

            Total submission is required after the surrender and some terms have to be set forth by Allah to be understood by the Muslim. There can be no option in the matter as Allah says in another verse,

            "It is not fitting for the believing man nor for the believing woman, that whenever Allah and His Messenger have decided any matter, that they should have any other opinion." [Holy Quran 33:36]

            Whatever Allah and His Messenger (.) have set out as being the Way of Islam is incumbent on the believer, man or woman to follow completely. One must consciously and conscientiously give oneself to the service of Allah.

            "And obey Allah and His Messenger."
            [Holy Quran 3:132]

            "O you who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger and those of you who are in authority. If you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination." [Holy Quran 4:59]

            "He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah, but he who turns away, then we have not sent you as a watcher over them." [Holy Quran 4:80]


            This means to act on what Allah enjoins all of us to do (in the Qur'an) and what His beloved Prophet, Muhammad (.) encouraged us to do in his Sunnah (his lifestyle and sayings personifying the Qur'an).

            The Five Pillars of Islam (arkān-al-Islām أركان الإسلام; also arkān ad-dīn أركان الدين "pillars of the religion") are five basic acts in Islam.

            The Qur'an presents them as a framework for worship and a sign of commitment to the faith. They are (1) the shahada (creed), (2) daily prayers (salat), (3) fasting during Ramadan (sawm), (4) almsgiving (zakāt), and (5) the pilgrimage to Mecca (hajj) at least once in a lifetime.

            Comment


            • #7
              Tanveer. Shaikh - I don't know if you're missing the point compLETELy on purpose or whether you just don't get it.

              WE KNOW ISLAM'S STANCE.
              You don't have to repeat the ahadith
              And why are you suddenly even repeating that Allah is One and Only as if we don't know that?
              That's incREDIBly patronising.
              You shouldn't be ashamed of saying clearly what Islam's stance is, but you SHOULD be ashamed of not having a compassionate, understanding and merciful bone in your body.

              NONE of us - not me, OR HiddenOne are saying that homosexual sexual relations are okay.

              We're talking about same-sex attraction. The FEELINGs, the inclination, the sexual orientation. That is something that you do not choose - it is a balaa' that some people have to face; and no, it's not a sin OR haraam in Islam to HAVE SSA. it's whether you act OUT on it or not.

              If a homosexual man NEVER approaches another man sexually in his life - are you sTILL going to be telling me that this person is condemned? By GOD no. Such a person, who is able to do Jihaad an Nafs all their life for the sake of Allah alone is indeed of a vERY high calibre of faith and Iman.

              This man IS suppressing sexual feelings, so don't speak to him in such a debasing and patronising way as though he doesn't even know Allah.

              We would not be here if we do not hold close to our hearts Allah swt and islam. But some of us are given trials that we need to deal with. Some trials are bigger than others. Personally, I can't imagine a trial bigger than this. People struggling with this trial in a genuine Islamic way should find the support from their muslim brethren to remain on the straight path.
              Judgemental posts and speech will just drive them to despair and away from the fold of Islam.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thank you, HowISee, for your encouraging post, and your reply. I feel that you have understood my feelings, and I believe that's mainly what I'd been looking for. At this stage, I'm lucky and have been blessed by Allah to have found support both with some close, trusted Muslims, as well as with Western resources of therapy and support groups and friends who deal with the issue. I appreciate your response, reaching out, kind words and prayer, which aren't always easy to display.

                Tanveer, thank you for your reply.

                In Islam, homosexuals are condemned to receive the severest form of punishment in Islam. Homosexuality is treated as a serious sexual crime like Zina and adultery are. Here are some Islamic provisions for sodomy as found in Quran, ahadith and Sha’ria.
                This doesn't give any explanation of why a person would have SSA. (By the way, SSA/homosexual feelings do not necessarily mean a desire for sodomy, which I don't have). You mentioned that individual thoughts are irrelevant in Islam. I believe I see your point and agree in some ways and disagree in others. I believe individual thought hoping to change Islam are not relevant. I believe individual thoughts for the sake of gaining further understanding of one's own religion and one's own self are encouraged. With that being said, I will emphasize that what I described above I shared from an emotional state, which I mentioned as a disclaimer. Online forums in general seem to focus on rational discussion rather than genuine or emotional communication in general and not really address emotions, so I would understand why this may seem extreme to some. In any case, I do believe that many questions a person may have about his own religion or God may very well go unanswered. There are some things that are not for man to know. بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم لا تسألوا عن أشياء إن تبد لكم تسؤكم

                However, at the same, there are things if explored, looked into, understood, could help a man reach a state of higher spiritual, emotional and intellectual maturity than if he just blindly followed everything he heard as though the Quran were nothing but a rule book without caring to understand it. I definitely believe SSA is one of those issues. I believe sexuality is so important to each human that it very well plays some role in one's identity. Those verses and hadiths address the punishment of homosexual acts. They say nothing to address how a person with homosexual feelings, who wishes not to act upon them, should feel about himself. I agree that Allah has the answers, and I believe He is helping me. However, before I reached that place, the loneliness/blindness to any understanding resulted in serious self-identity crises that would only serve to endanger my identity as a human being equal to other human beings. I have no doubt that if a Muslim follows Islam perfectly and surrenders perfectly and trusts perfectly in Allah and is a perfect Muslim, he would be able to deal with this issue very naturally. No Muslim, however, is perfect. A person who has SSA issues is not perfect not only because he has difficulty with those urges, but because the underlying psychological factors leading to such feelings indicate distance from others in life and little guidance. To expect a person to simply be able to practice Islam to its fullest extent by threatening him with hell is simply not something some people can handle, and would require a great deal of confidence and understanding of one's self not to feel crushed, damaged or terrified by those around him who are supposed to be guides in Islam. But SSA, in its essence, is a problem of not knowing one's self and feeling detached from those around him. I would not have had the courage to express my emotions on an open forum in such an intense way, even in anonymosity, if I haven't already gained some understanding of myself so that I would not fall into severe hopelessness because of what you say, even if it is the punishment of homosexual activity. With that being said, I agree with some things further down in your post about how Allah has the answers, which I'll mention soon.

                One should clearly be understood that Muslims believe in one, unique, incomparable Allah, Who has no son or partner, and that none has the right to be worshipped but Him alone. He is the true God, and every other deity is false. He has the most magnificent names and sublime perfect attributes. No one shares His divinity, nor His attributes.
                Bear in mind, I didn't say I rely on other deities. I didn't rely on Judaism or Christianity. I was helped by Jews and Christians and their resources which provide greater understanding of the matter than Muslims. Again, I am supported by some Muslims, and they are loving, and at the same time, they simply don't understand these feelings and offer general advice that doesn't speak in a way that addresses the psychological or emotional state of a confused human being struggling with this issue. I should add that at this point I don't even see the sexual impulse and controlling it in and of itself as the issue. I believe the underlying factors are important to deal with, and when dealt with, the sexual impulses decrease (as well as praying to Allah and trusting Him). When all I see from Muslims is addressing the sexual feeling itself, which is at the surface and just a manifestation of deeper issues, then I don't believe I can trust that person to understand me personally. It's true that one must rely only on Allah. This doesn't mean one must not try to get help from fellow human beings who are working as Allah's tools as helping one another. Why else do people offer one another support, guidance and love? So yes, I believe in only Allah as far as a deity goes. However, as an imperfect human being, I believe it is simply natural to communicate with other human beings, especially those by whom I feel understood. I have no doubt in my faith as a Muslim. But at this stage, it is simply apparent to me that for the most part, I feel better understood as a human being by Christians and Jews than I do by most Muslims. This is not because there is anything wrong with Islam or anything more correct with other religions. It is simply because I believe many Muslims are ignorant about this issue (as are most people of other religions as well), and also because I haven't had the courage to seriously explore this issue with Muslims. This serious deficit in Muslims awareness of understanding the issue of SSA beyond talkng about the punishment of sexual acts needs to be addressed, in my opinion.

                Surrender to Almighty Allah. This is understood from a verse in the Holy Quran - Allah says: "Inna deena indalahil-Islam." (Certainly, the only acceptable way which Allah will accept is Islam). [Holy Quran 3:19]
                This I absolutely agree with. Surrender is the only way to peace and guidance. Much easier said than done for many people. Much more difficult to practice when a person is ridden with anxiety and panic over the potential consequences of failing surrender. I believe surrendering to Allah is much more feasible when a person is at a state of trusting and loving Allah SWT. However, to feel an emotion, I believe one must be dealt with a certain way. I simply don't see it feasible to tell someone: "You must love God" and expect the switch to suddenly turn on. Not because the person is evil is he "refusing" to love or trust Allah. It's because certain factors in his life keep him from doing so. That's why I believe certain people need to be spoken to a certain way to reach a level of love, trust and surrender to Allah that will help them in their life. At this point, I have much more love and trust in Allah than I did in the past. Once again, it is difficult to trust when a person's identity is simply being defecated on and being completely disrespected and unseen on Earth by other Muslims. It's true that Allah has the ultimate and perfect understanding of any human being's emotions, experience and hardships, and is all-loving, all-merciful, all-powerful, and can help anyone in their crises if only they surrender to His will and to Islam. This is what I assume most Muslims have been taught in theory (and they are all notions I agree with). At the same time, in reality, when a person has troubling feelings such as these, and is being told simply that he will suffer the gravest of consequences because of these feelings, I end up feeling detached, and misunderstood. My mistake that led me to feel detached and misunderstood was not realizing that Allah would love me in spite of these feelings, that Allah will confirm me, that I don't need to live with them forever, that I don't need to doubt or hate myself because of my feelings, that I don't need to live with this secret forever alone. My mistake was thinking that because this is my burden from Allah, I should pretend it doesn't exist, and never share it with anyone, because only Allah understands and other human beings are incapable of understanding. My mistake was believing that if I told another Muslim about my feelings, I might be condemned or banished or seen as less than human and destroy all my relationships forever in life. My mistake was thinking that Allah wants me to always have these desires, to accept that I will never have a regular sex life, that I will never be attracted to women, which also added the anxiety and fear of how to explain to other Muslims that I never want to get married, and fear that I would be pressured into marriage despite my feelings. I can go on for a while. The truth is, these were my mistakes, and they kept me from Allah. I don't blame myself for having carried these beliefs. As a very young teenager with overwhelming feelings and hearing these messages of condemnation, and because i felt misunderstood it was difficult to ask for support or understanding in being peaceful and practicing Islam comfortably with other Muslims or learning from them when they very well might despise me or threaten me because of my feelings, I was unfortunately unable to grow very far in Islam. At the moment, my intention is to grow in Islam because I sense more strongly than in the past that only through submission to Allah, in Islam, can I live a life Allah intends. These are things I've always known intellectually, but was never able to sense very strongly because the attitude and example around me were too scary. This is why, having come to this realization of my own religion through the understanding and love of human beings of other religions rather than any appropriate potrayal of true Islamic manners, love and human relationship within Muslim communities, do I experience such anger that generally speaking (and not all) I can't trust Muslims to understand me. I can trust Allah, and I've finally separated Allah and Islam from "Muslims", but in the past, and as a young child, it was difficult to do so when I was surrounded by Muslims I was terrified of. That is what I meant when I said in my very first post that only through Allah can I find any understanding. Once again, in Quran and Hadith, there are sayings about the consequences of homosexual actions. There are also general guidelines of surrendering to Allah, loving Allah, loving one's self, accepting Allah's will, following Allah's guidance in general. Reading about the consequences alone seem to be out of sync with being able to have enough faith in one's own ability to sense right from wrong or one's own ability to be worthy of Allah's guidance and love. And I have not seen any emphasis or ever heard a Muslim say with authority anything from the Quran or Hadith that exhibit respect, understanding and acknowledgment that people with homosexual feelings who choose not to act on them are equal to all other Muslims and there is a way for them to feel belonging to brother and sister Muslims rather than isolated. This is no reason to turn away or reject Islam, but it has certainly made it much more difficult to learn how to surrender and trust Allah and instead instigates anxiety and depression.

                Once agan, I agree that surrender is the only way. But I've come to discover what it is I need to surrender and have failed to do so as of yet. I do not only need to surrender this burden. I also need to surrender the fact that I fear and have little trust of Muslims, and that that is ok, because ultimately Allah will show me how to interact with Muslims and other people in life if I ask Him, because many Muslims instill anxiety, fear and depression, and it's a grave mistake that I believe many Muslims fall into early on to believe that the Muslims they were surrounded by and growing up and that most Muslims are true representatives of Islam.
                Last edited by hiddenone; 10-25-2012, 04:06 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Homosexuality is a moral disorder.

                  Aauzo Billaahi Minash Shaitaan Nir Rajim Bismillaah Hir Rahman Nir Raheem ;
                  Allah - Beginning With The Name Of - The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful.



                  As-Salāmu `Alaykum


                  Dear hiddenone and HowIsee.....

                  Homosexuality is a moral disorder. It is a moral disease, a sin and corruption... No person is born homosexual, just like no one is born a thief, a liar or murderer. People acquire these evil habits due to a lack of proper guidance and education.

                  There are many reasons why it is forbidden in Islam. Homosexuality is dangerous for the health of the individuals and for the society. It is a main cause of one of the most harmful and fatal diseases. It is disgraceful for both men and women. It degrades a person. Islam teaches that men should be men and women should be women. Homosexuality deprives a man of his manhood and a woman of her womanhood. It is the most un-natural way of life. Homosexuality leads to the destruction of family life.

                  I don't know if many people (including hiddenone and HowIsee) know about this, but on the Internet, there are some pages about Muslims who are homosexuals. It is one issue to be Muslim and a homosexual, and another to try to justify this choice by Allah's (The Exalted) book, the Quran, and the word's of the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace). InshaAllah, in this post I will be dealing with the later issue. The first point to make clear is that as Muslims, we accept Allah (The Exalted) and His Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) as the authority and final word on what is right and wrong. This is in important point to be grasped. Otherwise, there is little use in discussing the issue. This is exactly where the people who try to justify homosexuality, and other practices and beliefs, from the Quran go wrong. The point of this post is to make clear the position of Islam on homosexuality so that there will be no doubts about it.


                  All revealed religions, Islam, Judaism and Christianity form a united front against such sexual behavior. It has been clearly condemned in the Qur'an and in Bible. The Qur'an describes the people of Lut (Lot) as follows:

                  So when Our punishment came upon the people of Lut, We turned the city upside down and showered with stones of baked clay, one after another.(11:82)


                    • So we see that as far as the Qur'an is concerned, homosexuality is an "indecency," and that Allah had destroyed a whole nation because of this indecent sexual behavior. ( their should be no question of carrying burden for such a forbidden activity and one should not having any kind of rights to Justify it right for just sake of his own intrest.
                      Many different types of sexual behavior could be found in primitive societies, but that does not automatically make it natural or right.)


                  I think the persons like hiddenone and HowIsee should think that Why is Islam so severe in matters of fornication, homosexuality and lesbianism? If the Islamic system had not allowed the gratification of the sexual urge by lawful means (without even associating guilt with it), then it would be right to say that Islam is very severe. But since it has allowed the fulfillment of sexual instincts by lawful means, it is not prepared to tolerate any perverted behavior.


                  The homosexuals are considered as the high risk group for Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (AIDS). This shows that nature has not accepted it as a normal sexual behavior among mankind. The homosexuals are told that in order to have safe sex, they must use condoms. If homosexuality without condoms is not safe sex, then how can it be natural? Isn't the statement that "it is natural but not safe" a contradiction in itself?


                  The moral bankruptcy of the West is clearly evident in the present trend where some Christian churches are willing to consider modifying the Biblical moral values to accommodate the whims of those who want to justify their immoral behavior! A high ranking Anglican cleric in Canada says that it's time his church approved some form of service or rite that would bless the union of committed same sex couples. (See the statement of The Very Rev. Duncan Abraham. Dean of St. James Cathedral in Toronto. The Toronto Sun, Nov. 24, 1993.) After a three-hour debate in 1987, the General Synod of the Church of England "decided that homosexuality is wrong, but has refused to condemn it as a sin." (The Globe & Mail (Toronto) Nov. 12, 1987) It seems that instead of providing moral and ethical leadership, the church is being led by the special interest groups. Such groups even want the public schools to change the definition of family so as to make their life-style acceptable.


                  Dear hiddenone and HowIsee there has been a lot of discussion lately on the issue of Homosexuality. There is a tendency, ever so slight, among some of us to make this behavior acceptable in the name of fairness and tolerance.

                  Homosexuality is, of course, not a new behavior. It has existed in practically all cultures and among all people, but usually in fewer numbers and in secrecy ( as Mr. HowIsee appreciated Mr. hiddenone for expressing his SSA and blaming Islam for not providing any kind of slution for sucj kind of activity or expression) , not with an "in your face" attitude as it does in the west now. Unfortunately this is the reality of the times we live in, especially in the western societies, and we need to deal with it. The Homosexual, or the gay as they call themselves, in an attempt to polish their image, constitute a very active and powerful lobby group.

                  They promote their agenda through legislation, presenting themselves as victims of prejudice and discrimination, helping to enact the gender discrimination act, legalizing and securing full benefits for same gender marriage, funding research similar to the hypothalamus issue (which shows a genetic propensity to homosexuality), teaching at even kindergarten level that the two-male or the two female can make a family unit which is an acceptable alternative that is even comparable to the traditional MOM and POP family, religious and moral blurring on the stand by establishing gay churches and synagogues, etc. etc.

                  The homosexual movement has a strong network of support groups who encourage each other to "come out of the closet", thus advancing and actively promoting this behavior. They thrive on conflict amongst the family and/or community members. They have been known to provide moral, psychological, social, and financial support to any one of their own who is making the transition into their lifestyle or who is "coming out of the closet", so to speak.

                  They use proven methodologies in changing social acceptability and behavior towards themselves. Like the shows on television, they will introduce the radical issue which will provoke a hue and cry from all quarters the first time out, the second time there is less and in subsequent times the opposition will die out. They then discuss, or frame the issue as it is known, to convince us of their legitimacy and how wrong, narrow minded and bigots all these moralists are. The trick is to say it enough times, and what was once a taboo to even talk about is becoming normal, acceptable, and even desirable to more and more people. (the way Mr. hiddenone has expressed his feelinggs and suggested to see other religion, for expressing ill feelings as a acceptable, emotional behaviour).



                  We as a Muslims need to state unequivocally and unambiguously that homosexuality is a deviant behavior and that there is not even an iota of doubt that Islam condemns the behavior.

                  * The most important thing for us as Muslims is that Islam is not our ethnicity, it is our religion which regulates our lives and from which we derive our values.

                  * Even though our religion allows us latitude, more than most, to ponder and reconsider some issues, homosexuality is clearly and explicitly condemned by the Quran (7:80-83, 11:77-79), the Prophet (s.a.w.), and his progeny.

                  * When we have a conflict with the Quran, which is the word of God verbatim, we do not ask where the Quran went wrong but rather why are we, limited beings, in conflict with the wisdom of the absolute, God Almighty.

                  * As Muslims we do not make up our religion, but we receive it and we obey it.

                  * Thus stated, we need to clarify, that it does not mean that we hate the homosexual person but rather that we find the behavior abhorable.

                  We want to help (please be understood by hiddenone and HowIsee) with sensitivity and care whoever has these tendencies, or practices such behavior. We can further point out the following:

                  God has created everything in pairs each endowed with physical and psychological characteristics to complement and complete one another. The Quran (4:1) indicates that human beings have been created from one living entity (nafs), which represents the origin of both the male and the female. The human species though has included male and female since its existence. The "mating" or "spousing" of male and female sexes is original in human nature and out of this instinctive relationship the human race develops, continues and spreads.


                  Between the two sexes a gravitating combination of love, tenderness, and care is engendered, so that each finds in the other completeness, tranquility, and support (Quran 30:21).

                  Having children and loving them represents another fulfillment of the human nature (Quran 42:49-50). It is through this spousal complementation and completion, according to the Quran (7:189), that each spouse achieves comfort, and enjoys peace of mind, satisfaction, and fulfillment. These relationships extend beyond the physical sexual contact and to psychological, spiritual relations.




                  And Allah Knows the Best!!!




                  The blessings of this completeness are not ended by their accomplishment, but they continue and develop through bringing forth children, raising them, and providing the whole family with material, emotional, and moral needs.


                  The pleasures of completion and procreation may well be extended and multiplied, when one is granted grand children, who not only represent genealogical continuation, but are also a dynamic revitalization of the human race.


                  Such physical-psychological-spiritual development through spousing and mating, followed by procreation, that may continue for more than one generation, ought to lead every sensible human being to be grateful to God for His successive and multiplying favors with his own family throughout his lifetime. Such persons and their happy veritable families would be models for the whole society (Quran 25:72).



                  * One of the criteria or litmus test of a behavior that is beneficial to humanity at large is, "what if the action that you are promoting is exercised by a majority of the people of the world? Will it advance humanity or will it retard it?" In this case human beings will cease to exist.



                  * If there is any truth to the claim that the male homosexual behavior could be genetic, how about the bisexuals and the lesbians. They for sure are making a choice and by our standards a wrong one too.



                  * The debate and the argument advanced by the homosexuals is "Be what you are," and "do not be ashamed of it". Many unsuspecting youths then start to experiment, to "discover" what they really are. They are in fact being unwittingly, and in their most suggestible period of growth, led astray with the power of suggestion and a convoluted logic. Whoever we are, whatever one might be, it is ennobling to always try to do what is right.



                  * Even if there is a genetic propensity towards homosexuality, it is the nobility of the human spirit that can overcome it. There are suggestions that alcoholics are genetically pre-disposed to their behavior. Furthermore, some people are inherently prone to take risks, which is an essential element for human progress and development. This pre-disposition to risk taking behavior can easily lead to the destructive behavior of gambling. We do not encourage the people with a propensity to alcoholism or gambling to keep on indulging in these vices, but rather encourage them to resist and overcome them we should do the same with homosexual feelings and tendencies. Whether one has the orientation or harbors "homosexual genes," one's feelings and desires cannot dictate behavior.



                  One may have a strong urge to have a homosexual contact, a heterosexual contact with one other than one's own spouse, or to steal or kill. The nobility of the human spirit is to resist, and this is what elevates the human being to the status above that of the angels.



                  * There is a period during our growth process where we are most comfortable with and try to bond with persons of the same gender. Some carry this behavior to an extreme and experiment with homosexuality. Some Psychiatrists still believe that those who continue with the homosexual behavior are really arrested in their development process. They avoid or are afraid to continue with the normal psychological growth. This condition is treatable by psychotherapy.


                  The reality of the society requires that we argue our positions, and deal with issues, as they prevail using some of the existing societal rationale. Though the thinking may fall short of our ideal, it can be an effective start in changing and moving the debate closer to our view point and values.


                  The following two points are made with this thought in mind.



                  * As Muslims, we identify and instinctly come to the defense of any individuals or groups who are discriminated against. This reaction is due to our foundational value and commitment to justice, and also from our own contemporary experiences, as individuals and as members of a group, who have suffered from discrimination and vilification.

                  While we abhor acts of discrimination against individuals or groups, we also place a high value on discretion. The individual's right of choice is a fundamental value and necessary condition for each individual to be accountable to God for his/her own actions. God's guidance secures the balance between the individual's and societal rights. No one has a right to spy into the private lives and affairs of individuals. Even when these private affairs should incidentally be known, the admonition is to keep them private and protect those involved.



                  However, when one openly declares one's sexual orientation, a private matter, and then demands special consideration because of it, we find this an affront to the society's well being. There are already safeguards and protections under the law against discrimination that includes heterosexuals and homosexuals. To demand further special rights and consideration based on how or who we have sex with, and claim it to be a civil rights issue, is ludicrous. To compare with and demand special protection as those who have been persecuted for their national origin, race, color, or creed and religious beliefs is baseless and has no historical or social justification or parallels. We will then have to accede similar special demands for protection and single out groups varying from those who want to have heterosexual relations to those who are left handed, when they are all currently protected under existing laws. We are committed to uphold the family unit and its values, and protection of it as a durable, proven, most important and socially viable nucleus of any society. There is a continual struggle and effort to maintain the balance between an individual's right and society's well being.


                  We place a higher value on the society's well being than an individual's right to actively promote counter values that will ultimately damage the society at large. We therefore have a right to resist and ensure the protection of our values against such an onslaught. This resistance should never be an aggression against any individual or groups, but a firm and principled stand against the counter values being promoted, while promoting our values in a kinder and gentler fashion with conviction. We have, indeed, a duty to promote divine wisdom and values that will advance humanity and that have withstood the test of time.



                  * Homosexuality is an issue that concerns most main stream Christians and Jews and we all share a common value. It can provide an opportunity to work together for the common good of the society at large.

                  We, as Muslims, have benefit and blessings of divine guidance and wisdom. The Quran reminds us that Allah (SWT) will change the condition of the people only if they themselves put forth the effort (13:11). If the homosexuals can promote their wrong values with vigor and succeed, we have a duty and a responsibility to not only make an effort to arrest this trend, but also to invest our time, energy, and resources to promote the divine values with as much zeal. Our challenge is to explore and find ways to resist and counter this movement amongst our own families, immediate community, the Muslim Ummah, and the whole of humanity. This is our destiny and the challenge of the times we live in. Action more than rhetoric will make us worthy of Allah's (SWT) help and mercy and will endear us to Him. The question is what are you, and in turn all of us collectively, going to do to promote our values, and counter this threat? and I am sure while doing this Mr.hiddenone and Mr. HowIsee will be with us ...without any Shame.


                  And Allah Knows the Best !!!!



                  Last edited by tanveer.shaikh; 10-25-2012, 04:29 PM.
                  The Five Pillars of Islam (arkān-al-Islām أركان الإسلام; also arkān ad-dīn أركان الدين "pillars of the religion") are five basic acts in Islam.

                  The Qur'an presents them as a framework for worship and a sign of commitment to the faith. They are (1) the shahada (creed), (2) daily prayers (salat), (3) fasting during Ramadan (sawm), (4) almsgiving (zakāt), and (5) the pilgrimage to Mecca (hajj) at least once in a lifetime.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thank you for your reply, Tanweer,
                    I need to go now so don't have time to respond to your point at the moment. I just wanted to say there seems to be a misunderstanding. Nowhere have I suggested that homosexuality is natural, or that homosexual acts should be allowed. I have no desire to live as a homosexual man. I don't know where the misunderstanding arised from but for the sake of respecting my own intellect and yours I will choose not to try to discover the source of misunderstanding. I will say again, while I experience strong emotions of wishing Islam explained why a person has and experiences homosexual feelings instead of simply condemning the behavior, I do believe that ultimate surrender to Allah is helpful. I don't believe Islam is deficient. I simply don't believe it addresses the reasons behind homosexual feelings directly, but with true surrender to Allah one could reach that understanding even if not directly mentioned. I agree that homosexual acts are immoral. That's why these feelings are confusing, it's almost as if to say I am immoral. I have come to understand that SSA is not something I was born with, but also not something I chose for myself. Again, I didn't say Christianity and Judaism have directly explained it in their religions, either. However, Christians and Jews have integrated understanding of why a person has these feelings in order to overcome them with their spirituality, and I believe the same could be done for Islam. Anyway, I'll respond in more detail later, although I sense that you're not understanding what I'm trying to say and missing my point, and accusing me of trying to justify homosexual actions, which is simply not true, but this is not an intentional miscommunication on either of our parts, and I don't know if you believe that, but it's enough for me to know my own intentions and not base them off of your judgments.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      * Homosexuality is an issue that concerns most main stream Christians and Jews and we all share a common value. It can provide an opportunity to work together for the common good of the society at large.
                      My point exactly!!!

                      Also, HowISee, I edited my first post to reply to you further, but unfortunately my post didn't go through. I will reply more later.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        What is sinful in being SSA ... is the actual sexual act between the couple of a similar sex. if you transform your desires into a struggle and a challenge to overcome it and not physically commit it, then insha'Allah, you will get the reward for it.

                        Don't lose hope! Fear Allah (S.W.T), ask Him for help earnestly, never give up, and do something to get rid of even the idea of homosexuality. Try to avoid all of the circumstances that trigger your SSA feelings: don't get alone with an attractive man, always be in the company of others, don't get involved in deep / personal discussions with any person that you may think will trigger your SSA feeling. Stay away from any other people who have similar feelings. Don't even think in such an idea of this subject, keep yourself busy in different useful thing, and stay away of anything that remind you of homosexuality. Keep a POSITIVE thinking in your mind and keep saying to yourself that you can do something about it.

                        Don't ever say I can't.

                        Remember with every step you are taking toward getting rid of this habit you are getting help and reward from Allah (S.W.T) and you are annoying the shaytan.


                        Also for many SSA Muslims the concept of getting married is unappealing. Having this feeling should not prevent you from considering to get married in the future. You will discover that marriage is more than simply fulfilling your sexual needs... Your wife will insha'Allah bring you peace, tranquility, joy, security, and many other feelings that every human being needs, irrelevant of their "sexual partners". Also, while Muslims are not allowed to lie, you should keep this feeling to yourself and not share it with her or your parents for many reasons... Be patient for yourself... You will see how rewarding it is at the end... Remember, there is in this world many compulsive gamblers, alcoholics, adulterers, thieves, but many of them control it and refrain from doing it... If they aren't Muslims and have the will to do it, you are a Muslim and you have Allah on your side when you seek His Help. There is no way you will fail insha'Allah...

                        And Allah Knows the Best !!!
                        The Five Pillars of Islam (arkān-al-Islām أركان الإسلام; also arkān ad-dīn أركان الدين "pillars of the religion") are five basic acts in Islam.

                        The Qur'an presents them as a framework for worship and a sign of commitment to the faith. They are (1) the shahada (creed), (2) daily prayers (salat), (3) fasting during Ramadan (sawm), (4) almsgiving (zakāt), and (5) the pilgrimage to Mecca (hajj) at least once in a lifetime.

                        Comment

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